Reply-To: elfling@egroups.com
Message-ID: <37FBA24F.21AEE20D@c...>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 21:26:12 +0200
From: Ales Bican <bican@c...>
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To: elfling@egroups.com
References: <7tcev3$<8s7b@e...>
Subject: Re: to be or not to be
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<orgof@h...> wrote:

> Suilie!
> I'm still too curious about the forms of "niye", "to be".

**Probably we all are.

>
> We have  naa/ (pl) naar - for both present times

**Pl. of _naa_ is actually _nar_ i.e. short _a_.

>
> nee/neer - for the past simple

**Yes, it's said that there's some tradition to use this, but as far as I
know it is
attested in no Tolkien's manuscripts already published.
Again _ner_ not _neer_.

>
> eane/eaner - for the perfect

**Perfect? No it isn't perfect. It is resp. could be the past tense of _ea_
"it is, it exists"

>
> yeva - for the future

**Yes, but it's not as easy as it seems. First it's with the long _e_ i.e.
_yeeva_.
Second in fact it isn't the future tense of _naa_, but of _ye_ meaning the
same.
_Ye_ is attrested in Fiiriel's Song, which isn't written in fully mature
Quenya.
As it seems, _ye_ was completely replaced by _naa_. In Namaarie we don't
find _ye_, but _naa_. The problem is with the future tense _yeeva_. Since
_ye_
is (probably, we can't be sure) obsoleted by _naa_, as well as _yeeva_ might

be, but unfortunately it is the only attested and genuine word by Tolkien.
If we don't want to use constructions as *_naava_, *_nauva_, *_nuuva_, we
must use _yeeva_.

>
> And what forms do we have in participle I and participle II?

**Who knows? The forms of "to be" are somehow strange in all nature
languages.

>
> Then we have such archaic forms as "ea" - "exists", "it is", "let it
> be"

**It isn't archaic, I think. Cirion normally used it in his oath.

> - and "toi" (they are)

**It's actually an independent word for "they", not seeming to be valid
in mature Quenya.

> . Any other attested?

**We also have _nai_ "be it that".
Also _uin_, _umin_ "I do not, am not", _uume_ pa.t. of the former.

> (You see, I'm asking
> 'cause here in Russia's too hard to get Tolkien's books, and surely -
> quite a problem to get any of his archives. Are they available on the
> Net?)

**Ultimately best is Ardalambion.


Ales Bican