X-Sender: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <385AA380.ED01BD81@c...> References: Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 18:39:21 +0100 To: elfling@egroups.com From: BP Jonsson Cc: elfling@egroups.com List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: Reply-To: elfling@egroups.com Subject: Re: ata- vs. en- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 21:56 +0100 17.12.1999, Ales Bican wrote: > >**I just think that rather _ata-_ implies that something was done for >the second time, since from the same stem (AT(AT)) or variants the word >for "two" _atta_ was derived. >Therefore Aragorn was called _Envinyatar_ not *_Atavinyatar_, for he >didn't renew Gondor and Arnor for the second time, but simply *renew*. >And also _Aure entuluva_, for the day will come *again*, not for the >second time. >That's how I see it. Well, it's almost the reverse assignment to mine, but the same distinction. You are obviously right about "ata-" being related to 'two', so I was right about its reference to *the same person(s)* doing something, but the focus obviously must be on *doing the same thing a second time*. I probably also was right that "en-" would probably refer to another person than the first time. Agree? >BP Jonsson wrote: > >> Ainon teke harwesse Ardalambion: >> >> *** >> > ata -, at - "back-, again-, re-" (AT[AT]). Of mere >> > repetition , en - may be more usual, but ata - may >> > apparently also imply reversal of some kind (cf. >> > Tolkien's gloss "back"). >> *** >> >> I've been thinking: "entulesse" wd imply 'coming *again*, a second time' -- >> e.g. Nuumenatani coming to ME just as the Atani came to Beleriand, while >> "atatulesse" would mean *the same person(s)* coming back after having been >> out hunting or whatever. >> >> What do you all think? /BP B.Philip Jonsson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__ Anant' avanaute quettalmar! \ \ __ ____ ____ _____________ ___ __ __ __ / / \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / / / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / / / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Melarocco\_ // /__/ // /__/ / /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine__ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\ I neer Pityancalimeo\ \_____/ /ar/ /_atar Mercasso naan ~~~~~~~~~Cuinondil~~~\_______/~~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~ || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda cuivie aiya! || "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)